Welcome back to a regular feature: looking at how legacy cards might be a F.U.N. way to bring some old pieces back into Modern/Silver play or rework some old figs that never really worked right before (or don’t anymore due to rule changes).
Or, possibly, ruin them.
Here’s the latest batch, from the first Marvel set of 2023 — and the first to rock the new 2023 rules — Spider-Man: Beyond Amazing. We’ll look at what the original figure did, then at what’s new, and wrap with our opinion on it all and whether it’s F.U.N. (Fair, Useful, Nifty) … or nah.
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L001 SPIDER-MAN
(Secret Invasion, 2008)
THEN: “McSpidey” had the silliest-looking sculpt for the character in history — one that yours truly had to adjust. But he was a pretty decent piece to play, with SP Flurry that, IF he hit both shots, could quasi-Incap the second attack instead of damaging — which was better when Incap could deal pushing damage and was an important way of getting around the Mystics team ability. But lacking Charge or other moving attack, he was really dependent on Telekinesis to get to use this SP. Being a wild card, he needed teammates for best effect, anyway.
NOW: Along with a point shaving from 50 to 40, he gets the Charge the old one needed via trait and part of his old SP is essentially moved into the trait as well — this time, simplified to give a hit target a token. BUT he loses Flurry entirely. His new SP is Super Strength and Precision Strike. And with the changes in the Spider-Man Ally team ability, he’s no longer a wild card. Same keywords as before: Avengers , Fantastic Four , Reporter , Scientist — but adds Spider-Man Family, which didn’t exist in 2008.
F.U.N.? This piece is iconic for all the wrong reasons, but it’s nice to see it return and made playable again, though the loss of Flurry is a blow for sure. Not meta by any stretch, it’s pure F.U.N.
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L013 STILT-MAN
(Superior Foes of Spider-Man, 2016)
THEN: One of the goofiest villains in Marvel clix, this piece brought some unique tricks to the field and ended up our top F.U.N. fig of 2016. What we said then:
At normal height, he’s a Quake+Force Blast piece that can take one solid hit for the team thanks to his trait that allows him to drop a Leg Extension and take a max of 1 damage (and maybe none). As a giant, he can survive such hits at least twice and gains Giant Reach to make his Quake power much more effective (and also become a taxi). But it’s as a colossal that he can use his Colossal Retaliation SP, making him a deterrent to enemy attacks along with even further Giant Reach range.
NOW: Instead of having to add Extensions in construction at a cost of +5 each to his old 50 price, he gets them free (as tokens) via Rally dice — though he starts with a couple anyway. Each Extension token can absorb a click of damage he would normally take; this even works against penetrating and unavoidable damage! Another trait makes him giant if he has 2 Extensions, colossal with 4, and 6+ boosts all his combat values. His new SP is a new version of his Colossal Retaliation (when he’s colossal) that, like the old version, isn’t barred if another pal retaliates or is placed first. Same keywords (Armor, Sinister Syndicate) and team ability as before.
F.U.N.? That Stilt-Man grows during the game rather than shrinks is a really F.U.N. and character accurate new approach to his design. It also serves to balance him a bit so he isn’t the usual Negative Play Experience retaliation piece and allows him to fit onto teams better. But … WHAT’S HIS ACTUAL POINT COST? Because 49 — a WHOLE SOLITARY POINT below before — seems like a typo. (As of the original 3/19/2023 publication of this article, no errata for Wilbur here was issued.)
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L039a CLOAK & DAGGER
(Secret Invasion, 2008)
THEN: The inseparable ebony and ivory couple were one of a number of duo figs from WK, starting with a Phasing+Stealth SP — neither of which worked well with their Transporter ability (Hypersonic Speed-lite and Passenger:1). Later in their 8-click dial, they traded opening Penetrating/Psychic Blast for penetrating Energy Explosion — which also didn’t work with Transporter. And anyway, Transporter was -2 attack, so it was marginally better to hang in hindering and shoot from 6 range and hope their 9 or 8 AV could land while their Energy Shield/Deflection or Super Senses or Willpower could hold defensively.
NOW: They get a lot of boosts. First, they swap Transporter symbol for Wing. Next, they get Improved Targeting: Hindering, which is key for their new trait “Light of Hope to the Innocent, Dark Justice to the Guilty.” It boosts their AV +2 when they attack targets hiding in hindering and boosts their own DV +2 when they’re in clear terrain. Their still-Stealthy speed SP swaps in Hypersonic Speed for the old Phasing, and if they hit a solo enemy in hindering, that enemy can’t be targeted by its allies — not for Perplex, Support, Prob, ANYTHING — for a turn. C+D’s later SP combos EE with Precision Strike, healing them 1 if they KO a foe (but only if the duo’s in clear terrain). Retaining their old wild card status via Team Player TA while keeping the new Spidey TA, they also add the keywordsDark X-Men, X-Men and, for some reason, Sinister Syndicate to their original Marvel Knights and New Warriors ones. All this with a point shaving from 109 points down to just 65.
F.U.N.? OK, I have to mention that this legacy card highlights one of the many flaws with the new card design, as it has THE ENTIRELY WRONG FIGURE in the illustration. But this is an otherwise perfectly F.U.N. pick for a legacy that takes an old classic that never quite worked right and makes it a little more viable.
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L039b PETER THE HUNTER
(What If, 2017)
THEN: At the start of the game, this weird alternate version of Peter Parker could spawn four semi-autonomous Kraven family bystanders that carried each other and had a range of useful powers. For 90 points, he was interesting to play aggressively, since he could heal to top dial and avoid being KOed if he racked up his own KOs of enemies 50 points or higher. Or, alternately, you could stash him on the Sideline and replace an in-game Spider-Man or Kraven the Hunter.
NOW: Each of his pogs are generated one at a time as FREE, and they don’t get their semi-autonomy or Carry skills. He also drops his SIDELINE ACTIVE trait and his heal-via-KOs trait. All this loss leads to his cost plummeting to 50. His gains? He adds Spider-Man Ally and Sinister Syndicate TAs — where before he had none — and the Syndicate keyword as well to his original Animal, SpideyFam and Warrior keywords. And his new “Please End This” trait allows him to rack up Mission Points every turn equal to his Trophy tokens. But…
F.U.N.? …Oh, the new card design strikes again: Petey here is missing a whole trait that tells how he even GETS Trophy tokens. The designers got so concerned with non-essential stuff like the (too-large) picture and the WHOLLY UNNECESSARY DIAL on the (front of the) card (instead of the back where it belongs), they overlooked ACTUAL VITAL info like this.
(Errata that finally published 3/16/2023 reads: “KILLED MY GREATEST ENEMIES… AND CLOSE FRIENDS: When Peter the Hunter or a Kravinoff bystander KO’s an opposing character, after resolutions turn Peter the Hunter to click #1 and give him a Trophy token. // When Peter the Hunter would be KO’d, you may instead remove a Trophy token and turn him to his last non-KO click. Protected: Pulse Wave.” But it never should have been necessary … and it’s the worst errata this game has ever needed.)
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L040 SPIDER-MAN
(Ultimates, 2004)
THEN: Leap/Climb used to be handed out like candy to Spider-Man figs — bad-tasting candy. But at least Backpack Spidey here was inexpensive: just 31 points! Super Senses could protect him while he waited to push and hit with the heavy object he was likely holding. Later, the 15-point Pounce feat made him a more potent threat.
NOW: They gave him the wild card status this Rookie version needed to be as playable as the Veteran from the set. He also gets a trait allowing him to gain one of a themed team’s keywords and join up to not break theme. Finally, he has trait Perplex that, if he targets an enemy, allows him to copy the target’s printed AV and DV until the next turn … soooo mayyyybe he can survive that turn waiting to hit with the object or terrain he’s holding.
F.U.N.? While it’s great that he can cheat onto themed teams with ease, since those themed teams aren’t as important anymore, he doesn’t seem super for being basically the same cost as before. (I wonder why they didn’t pick the 042 Veteran version, which was one of my favorites of 2004’s figures, instead.)
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L048 FROG-MAN
(Superior Foes of Spider-Man, 2016)
THEN: An old favorite of this site. Here’s what we said about Froggy then:
His trait to deal himself free horizontal or vertical 4-square knock back can lengthen his already impressive 10 Leap/Climb, and careful positioning can enable him to deal free knock back to friend and foe alike. That enemy [shooter] perched on the roof turning the map into his personal killbox? Send Frog-Man next to him with L/C, then knock the sniper to the ground!
NOW: He gets Sidestep that lets him knock back an enemy in a direction of his choice afterward. Also, via the same trait, he and adjacent pals can’t be knocked back. A second trait gives him Force Blast, both normal and as FREE, along with a rider that lets him token up a character who didn’t get knocked the usual full 3 squares. He adds the Armor and Avengers keywords to his original Spider-Man Family and also gets the Spider-Man TA where he once had none. Now costs 30 points, down from 35.
F.U.N.? With knockback becoming dangerous again, this piece is suddenly meta again — and in a much more aggressive way than ever. We object to this on character grounds as well because there’s no way Eugene Patillo should be this good.
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L058 MORLUN
(Superior Foes of Spider-Man, 2016)
THEN: Back in 2016, this big boy was a 200-point vampire piece, starting on click 4 of his -click life and Stealing Energy with attacks. But with only Charge to move and attack and no protection against Outwit or penetrating damage, all too often he’d get dropped before he could meaningfully inflict his Slash marker on a hit target — his not-top-dial SP allowing him to pursue Animal or Spider Family notwithstanding.
NOW: The Slash mechanic is gone and he no longer gets extra healing from Animal or SpiderFam targets. Instead, he has Poison via trait and heals whenever he damages with it, similar to his Steal Energy. And he gives hit foes Imprint tokens, which allow him, via his rewritten SP, to be FREE placed next to that target. Said SP also has Phasing and Plasticity. But it’s still not top-dial and ideally, you’ll never see it. His keywords (Keywords: Animal, Brute, Cosmic, Monster, Mystical) are unchanged.
F.U.N.? It’s definitely a Fair piece, but Useful? Not really, even at his slimmed-down 150 points. With just Charge to start and no defense against Outwit or penetrating damage across most of his dial, he still might not ever work.
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L087 CARNAGE
(Ultimates, 2004)
THEN: The very first iteration of Carnage was also the worst ever. At a fairly weighty 87 points, he lacked moving attack powers and depended on Leap/Climb to get in position — or the help of a Telekinesis ally (or the Pounce feat, a set later). At least he had BCF for solid damage potential, and his Toughness to take a light hit. (Back then, Perplex didn’t work on your own defense.) Later Incap did nothing but probably bloat his cost some 20 points, I reckon. No team ability, either.
NOW: Kletus here gets Spider-Man TA, to start. Trait #1, “Now It’s a Party!” gives him +1 AV and DV for each adjacent foe and he can attack them ALL at once — with separate Blades rolls if he’s using that power. His other trait gives Steal Energy that heals off each hurt character instead just a blanket 1 healing.
F.U.N.? That Incap in the middle still does him no favors, but at 50 points, he’s pretty OK to field on your Monster and Symbiote teams (though he loses his old Brute and Martial Artist keywords — neither of which quite fit him, IMO).
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L088 SPIDER-MAN
(Clobbering’ Time, 2003)
THEN: Uniques like this were the early game’s version of Super Rare figures. But they weren’t always very good. Even at the time, this six-armed Spider-Man was terrible: No moving attack, just Leap/Climb. Single-target Incap. A poor 4 range. Weak 16 or lower DV … without even Super Senses to help on the back half of his 8-click life. Flurry shows up there but his AV sinks to 8 and below, not even good for the lower stats of the day. Two clicks of Outwit wrap things up, but 6 AV and 12 DV — and lacking even the usual wild card TA to help him — make it nothing but a signal that his 67 points are ripe to take.
NOW: He gets a trait or two to make him playable at last. First is “Becoming More of a Monster,” which gives Steal Energy and allows him to roll FOUR dice instead of 2 in attacks, and use the best two for the result — AFTER Prob Controls and dice replacements. Then he’s got “Don’t Look at Me!,” a Shape Change that allows him to place in an adjacent square after resolutions. Tops it all off with Improved Movement: Elevated and addition of the Spider-Man Ally TA to give him an extra layer of rollout potential.
F.U.N.? He’s still not good, but at just 40 points, he can afford to be just OK. Writing this convinced me to seek this old figure out — and add it to Monster and Spider-Man Family keyword teams.
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L096 SPIDER-MAN
(Fantastic Forces, 2005)
THEN: Another Unique from the early game, this first iteration of Miguel O’Hara was not great: No moving attack, just Leap/Climb that wasn’t even good with the Pounce feat because he had Blades/Claws/Fangs, which wasn’t compatible. A poor 4 range with Incap later, and without Super Senses to help on the back half of his 8-click life. Two clicks of Outwit wrap things up, but 7 AV and 14 DV make it a signal that his 92 points are ripe to take. But at least this time he had the usual wild card TA to maybe help him Outwit from 10 squares away — and the Willpower to help him run to cover.
NOW: No longer a wild card, this 65-point redo has a couple of new traits. First is one that gives him Vision tokens when he’s damaged by an enemy. He can spend them all the first time he faces KO and heal the amount. His other trait is Prob Control that he can use as many additional times as he has Vision tokens — and immediately boosts all his stats until his next turn, helping his poor old combat values. Keeps his old Exiles, Future and Scientist keywords and adds Spider-Man Family.
F.U.N.? This is a not-bad update. It’s a pure F.U.N. card for a deserving top-tier sculpt.
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LG004 CARNAGE
(The Mighty Thor, 2017)
THEN: One of the set’s many colossal booster pulls, this retaliation piece became an absolute meta game staple. Forget his higher costs of 300 or 200 or 100* points: For just 10, he could FREE ‘port across the board via Colossal Retaliation and attack opponents, then spawn a Symbiote pog just as annoying as he was for free, without condition. It was gross and made sightings of this huge piece in multiples commonplace at competitive events.
* (Well, OK, his 100+ point levels were also kinda playable because, unlike nearly every other retaliator, he also had Colossal Retaliation on his top dials instead of just the end. Again, gross. AND with “Planet of the Symbiotes” he could pay a few points extra in construction to START with the pog(s). SUPER gross.)
NOW: “Planet of the Symbiotes” now nerfs enemy Super Senses -1 — even after he’s KO’d, if he’s 225, 125 or 75 points. But he still does it even at 10 points. Speaking of that price point — because it’s THE price point — his retaliation SP now gives Blades/Claws/Fangs — which he HAS to use during his retal maneuver now. But if he hits with it, he can HEAL HALF THE BCF ROLL PAST HIS START LINE. And his other SP, “Colossal Indifference,” is still a STOP click — but no longer prevents him from normal attacking smaller foes. He gains the new Symbiote keyword along with his old Monster and Maximum Carnage keywords.
F.U.N.? The one nod to possible balance is that he no longer generates a Symbiote during Colossal Retaliation. He’s good enough by himself. But Clixed Off podcaster Daniel Powell assured me that this new version is even better than the old, which is why the card and figure was commanding such high prices during prerelease. This Carnage is NOT F.U.N. He’s gonna be a problem.
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Sigh. Legacy cards are always such a mixed bag.